In search of a PERFECT translation John 20:23
AN TINWN AFHTE TAS hAMARTIAS AFEWNTAI AUTOIS, AN TINWN KRATHTE KEKRATHNTAI.
ἄν τινων ἀφῆτε τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἀφέωνται αὐτοῖς ἄν τινων κρατῆτε κεκράτηνται.
If you discharge sins from any, [the sins] have been discharged for them; If you hold any [to account], they have been held [to account].
What is the force of the perfect tenses in this verse?
I’m inclined to follow Wilber Thomas Dayton, inter alia. The Greek Perfect Tense in Relation to John 20:23, Matthew 16:19 and Matthew 18:18. Th.D. Thesis: Northern Baptist Theological Seminary, 1945.
Is there a good archive of discussion here regarding this? Or is there anyone who’d care to defend the HCSB, ESV, NIV against the LXX (Gen 30:33), Jerome (remittuntur), Luther (sind erlassen), Dayton et al.?
Alastair ἠρὠτησεν:
Hi, Alastair,
I’d go with Max Zerwick’s “dramatic perfect.”
“If you let go of the sins of anyone, check it out, they are thrown away for these guys! If you hold on to the sins of anyone, get this, they stay where they are, yeah, baby!”
Mark L Φωσφορος
FWSFOROS MARKOS
Thanks Mark,
very hip.
Zerwick wisely doesn’t commit to either a dramatic perfect drawing attention to the completed action (so Wallace) or to the consequent results (so Dana and Mantey, also Brooks).
What have we got in John 20:23? What is the completed action? What is the consequent result? The action appears to be the removal of sin, the consequent result the forgiven status of the sinner. Interestingly, you seem to go for dramatic focus on the action, per Wallace.
What about a D&M-Brooks hip version zooming in on the status of the sinner? If you let go the sins of anyone, man do those guys luck out! If you hold onto the sins of anyone, they’re stuck in it for sure!
Hmmm, I’m not sure I grok this dramatic usage in this context. Perfects, we’re told, when used are significant. There are several possible things they could be marking. I’ll poke around for some extra-biblical examples of dramatic perfects, see if I can get a feel for patterns of usage. Thanks for the tip-off.
Alastair ἠρὠτησεν:
Hi, Alastair,
I’d go with Max Zerwick’s “dramatic perfect.”
“If you let go of the sins of anyone, check it out, they are thrown away for these guys! If you hold on to the sins of anyone, get this, they stay where they are, yeah, baby!”
Mark L Φωσφορος
FWSFOROS MARKOS
Thanks Mark,
very hip.
Zerwick wisely doesn’t commit to either a dramatic perfect drawing attention to the completed action (so Wallace) or to the consequent results (so Dana and Mantey, also Brooks).
What have we got in John 20:23? What is the completed action? What is the consequent result? The action appears to be the removal of sin, the consequent result the forgiven status of the sinner. Interestingly, you seem to go for dramatic focus on the action, per Wallace.
What about a D&M-Brooks hip version zooming in on the status of the sinner? If you let go the sins of anyone, man do those guys luck out! If you hold onto the sins of anyone, they’re stuck in it for sure!
Hmmm, I’m not sure I grok this dramatic usage in this context. Perfects, we’re told, when used are significant. There are several possible things they could be marking. I’ll poke around for some extra-biblical examples of dramatic perfects, see if I can get a feel for patterns of usage. Thanks for the tip-off.
This (including the preceding verses on ecclesia in all 3 passages) is a parallelism to:
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.””
Matthew 16:19 ESV
“Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.””
Matthew 18:18-20 ESV
This (including the preceding verses on ecclesia in all 3 passages) is a parallelism to:
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.””
Matthew 16:19 ESV
“Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.””
Matthew 18:18-20 ESV