Lk 21:19 Noel & Mary Fitzpatrick njfitzpatrick at eircom.net
Wed Nov 28 16:00:43 EST 2001
Heos Hou Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi In Lk 21:19 Bible Windows gives KTHSASQE as aorist imperative mid dep 2nd pers plural, while it is given as future middle by Robertson (NT Word pict.).The imperative is supported by AV, DBY and WEB, while the future is supported by BBE, ASV, NRSV, RSV, GWT and VUL.Would anyone like to comment.Regards,Noel J Fitzpatrick.**********************************Noel Fitzpatrick16 Granville ParkBlackrockCo DublinIrelandPhone: 353 1 2893851**********************************
Heos HouLk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi
Lk 21:19 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Nov 28 16:39:57 EST 2001
Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi At 9:00 PM +0000 11/28/01, Noel & Mary Fitzpatrick wrote:>In Lk 21:19 Bible Windows gives KTHSASQE as aorist imperative>mid dep 2nd pers plural, while it is given as future middle by>Robertson (NT Word pict.).> >The imperative is supported by AV, DBY and WEB, while the future>is supported by BBE, ASV, NRSV, RSV, GWT and VUL.I don’t see how it could be future with that glaring -SA-; there may be analternate reading KTHSESQE involved in that alternate parsing–and I see,looking at NA27 that such is the case; NA27 prints the aorist imperativebut shows the future indicative as a variant in some MSS. But there isn’tany future imperative.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.comWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWiLk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi
Lk 21:19 Randall Buth ButhFam at compuserve.com
Wed Nov 28 17:54:59 EST 2001
Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi SU as part of a vocative? shalom Noel,On your question, it is a textual problem. Your Bible windows is following the “current” NA/UBS text. It is debated.Western, Caesarean and Alexandriangroupings are all split between the imperative and the future. The Byz/Koine/majority text goes with the ‘imperative’.Contextually, both readings fit.> >In Lk 21:19 Bible Windows gives KTHSASQE as aorist imperative >mid dep 2nd pers plural, while it is given as future middle by >Robertson (NT Word pict.).> >The imperative is supported by AV, DBY and WEB, while the future >is supported by BBE, ASV, NRSV, RSV, GWT and VUL.> >Would anyone like to comment.ERRWSORandall Buthwww.biblicalulpan.org<
Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWiSU as part of a vocative?
Lk 21:19 Roe d.roe at t-online.de
Wed Nov 28 17:57:51 EST 2001
SU as part of a vocative? Lk 21:19 Noel & Mary Fitzpatrick schrieb:> > In Lk 21:19 Bible Windows gives KTHSASQE as aorist imperative> mid dep 2nd pers plural, while it is given as future middle by> Robertson (NT Word pict.).> > The imperative is supported by AV, DBY and WEB, while the future> is supported by BBE, ASV, NRSV, RSV, GWT and VUL.Hi Noel,This is a textual problem. Both have substantial support (see below). TheUBS-3 gave it a grade of “D” (its least certain grade), but upgrades thisto a “C” in the UBS-4 (perhaps “Textual Optimism” at work; cf. Kent D.Clarke).While the thought flow may be smoother with the indicative futureKTHSESQE, Metzger remarks that the aorist imperative KTHSASQE “seems to beslightly preferable, for copyists would have perhaps been likely toconform it to the future tense, used several times in the precedingcontext.”Warm regards,David[textual support below signiture, from NA-27, UBS-3, Swanson]D.W. RoeRheinland-Pfalz, Germany*********Luke 21:19 with KTHSASQE[Aleph] Sinaiticus 4th C. D Bezae 5/6th C. K 9th C. L 8th C. W 5th C. (NA-27 4-5) X 10th C.[Delta] 9th C. [Pi] 9th C.[Psi] 8-10th C. (NA-27 9-10; UBS 8-9) 063 9th C.family 1 (refers generally to the following manuscripts without requiringthe reading in each individual manuscript — Swanson shows a KTHSESQEreading for MS 1 !) 1 (renamed 2814) 12th C. 118 13th C. 131 14th C. 209 14th C. 1582 948 et al. 565 9th C. 700 11th C. 892 9th C.1009 13th C.1010 12th C.1071 12th C.1079 10th C.1216 11th C.1230 1124 1241 12th C.1242 13th C.1344 12th C.1365 12th C.1546 1263?1646 11722148 1337 2174 14th C.Byz. (‘majority text’)Old Latin It. d 5-6 th C.It. i 5th C.Bohairic Coptic (part) Basil ca. 379Apostolic Canons 4th C.Macarius, Magnes ca. 400Cyril, of Alexandria ca. 444*********Luke 21:19 with KTHSESQEA Alexandrinus 5th C.B Vaticanus 4th C.[Theta] 9th C.[Omega] 9th C.family 13 (refers generally to the following without requiring thereading in each individual manuscript) 13 13th C. 69 15th C. 124 11th C. 174 1052 230 1013 346 12th C. 543 12th C. 788 11th C. 826 12th C. 828 12th C. 983 12th C. 1689 1200? 1709 12th C. et al. 33 9th C.1195 1123 1253 15th C.1346 10-11th C. Old Latin It. a 4th C.It. e 5th It. f 6th It. ff2 5th C.It. l 7-8th C.It. q 7th C.It. r1 7th C.It. s 5th C.Vulgate Syriac (excepting Philoxenian)SinaiticCuretonianPeshittaPalestinianHarcleanSahidic Coptic Bohairic Coptic (part) ArmenianEthiopianGeorgianMarcion 2nd C.Tertullian ca. 220Origen ca. 254Macarius, Magnes ca. 400
SU as part of a vocative?Lk 21:19
Lk 21:19 Steven Lo Vullo doulos at merr.com
Wed Nov 28 18:19:04 EST 2001
Lk 21:19 Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi On Wednesday, November 28, 2001, at 03:00 PM, Noel & Mary Fitzpatrick wrote:> In Lk 21:19 Bible Windows gives KTHSASQE as aorist imperative> mid dep 2nd pers plural, while it is given as future middle by> Robertson (NT Word pict.).> > The imperative is supported by AV, DBY and WEB, while the future> is supported by BBE, ASV, NRSV, RSV, GWT and VUL.Note that Robertson is commenting on KTHSESQH, which is future middle, while USBGNT/NA27 have KTHSASQE, aorist middle imperative. It is a matter of variant readings. See the apparatus of the above GNTs for support for the variants.=============Steven Lo VulloMadison, WI
Lk 21:19Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi