Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU richard smith rbsads at aol.com
Sun May 26 23:21:16 EDT 2002
Definitions on Verbal Aspect Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU Rom 3:24 DIKAIOUMENOI DWREAN THi AUTOU CARITI DIA THS APOLUTRWSEWS THS ENCRISTWi IHSOU.This use of EN CRISTWi seemed interesting to me. I am somewhat aware thatPaul uses the phrase in multiple ways, but is it typical to refer to Jesusas in Christ?The translations do not seem to render the phrase in English with anyspecial significance. But surely Paul had some intention with the phrase?I searched the archives, expecting to find something of a discussion of ENCRISTWi. The search did not find any discussion of the phrase either ingeneral or specifically as IHSOUS EN CRISTWi.EN CRISTWi,Richard SmithChattanooga, TN
Definitions on Verbal AspectRom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU
Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU lance w seevers lws39 at juno.com
Sun May 26 23:28:02 EDT 2002
Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU hUPOAKOUO Isn’t IHSOU both considered dative and genitive?walt seeversOn Sun, 26 May 2002 23:21:16 -0400 “richard smith” <rbsads at aol.com>writes:> Rom 3:24 DIKAIOUMENOI DWREAN THi AUTOU CARITI DIA THS APOLUTRWSEWS > THS EN> CRISTWi IHSOU.> > This use of EN CRISTWi seemed interesting to me. I am somewhat aware > that> Paul uses the phrase in multiple ways, but is it typical to refer to > Jesus> as in Christ?> > The translations do not seem to render the phrase in English with > any> special significance. But surely Paul had some intention with the > phrase?> > I searched the archives, expecting to find something of a discussion > of EN> CRISTWi. The search did not find any discussion of the phrase > either in> general or specifically as IHSOUS EN CRISTWi.> > EN CRISTWi,> > Richard Smith> Chattanooga, TN> > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: [lws39 at juno.com]> To unsubscribe, forward this message to > $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to > subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > ________________________________________________________________GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOUhUPOAKOUO
Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU Charles Wiese crw2 at calvin.edu
Mon May 27 01:10:07 EDT 2002
hUPOAKOUO hUPOAKOUO > Rom 3:24 DIKAIOUMENOI DWREAN THi AUTOU CARITI DIA THS APOLUTRWSEWS THS EN> CRISTWi IHSOU.> > This use of EN CRISTWi seemed interesting to me. I am somewhat aware that> Paul uses the phrase in multiple ways, but is it typical to refer to Jesus> as in Christ?> > The translations do not seem to render the phrase in English with any> special significance. But surely Paul had some intention with the phrase?> > I searched the archives, expecting to find something of a discussion of EN> CRISTWi. The search did not find any discussion of the phrase either in> general or specifically as IHSOUS EN CRISTWi.> > EN CRISTWi,> > Richard Smith> Chattanooga, TNCRISTWi is in the Dative Case.IHSOU taken by itself could be taken in the Genitive, Dative, or Vocativecase.Therefore the most likely reading would be had by taking both words asbeing in the Dative Case. With the result being ‘in Christ Jesus’Charles WieseCalvin CollegeGrand Rapids, MIcrw2 at calvin.edu
hUPOAKOUOhUPOAKOUO
FW: Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU Gerald A. Wooten gawooten at mindspring.com
Tue May 28 01:26:29 EDT 2002
Irregular and deponent Verbs []Vocabulary lists (Was: Irregular and deponent Verbs) Richard,Perhaps N.T. Wright’s comments on Paul’s use of prepositional phraseswith either CHRIST[O/W-] or ‘IHSOUS as its object would be helpful.This discussion appears in his third chapter: XRISTOS as ‘Messiah’ inPaul: Philemon 6, in his monograph: The Climax of the Covenant [FortressPress: 1993].First he presents the statistics where either CHRIST[O/W] or ‘IHSOUS isthe object of various prepositions. With regard to Paul’s use of suchprepositional phrases he writes: “Thus, most notably, we see that when Paul says ‘in’ with a phrasedenoting Jesus Christ the Lord, the word which regularly follows iseither ‘Christ’ or ‘Lord’ and virtually never ‘Jesus’. When, however,he says ‘through’, it is usually ‘Jesus’ or ‘Lord’, rather than’Christ’. The exceptions to both generalizations actually prove therule, as we will see presently (pg 45).” He then uses these generalizations to support his point when heconcludes:”(A) The usage of CHRISTOS is incorporative…to connote, and sometimeseven to denote, the whole people of whom the Messiah is therepresentative. (B) …. CHRISTOS still bears, for Paul, the titularsense of ‘Messiah’, and that it is precisely on the basis of thatmeaning that he is able to coin (…..) the various prepositionalformulae in which this incorporative idea is summed up. (C) ….. Thoughboth words denote the same human being, Paul uses ‘IHSOUS to refer thatman as Jesus, the man from Nazareth, who died on the cross and roseagain as a human being, and through whose human work, Paul believedIsrael’s God had achieved his long purposes; and he uses CHRISTOS torefer to that same man, but this time precisely as Israel’s Messiah INWHOM THE TRUE PEOPLE OF GOD ARE SUMMED UP AND FIND THEIR IDENTITY [capsmine!]. ………. Clearly, because it is endemic in theunderstanding of kingship, that the king and the people are boundtogether in such a way that what is true of one is true in principle ofthe other (pg 46)He then turns to several texts to demonstrate this idea on’incorporation’ and finally to Philemon 6 which is his topic at hand.I am still working through his book, and cannot at this moment statewhat his full thesis is, but this much I can state:Paul’s Damascus experience caused Paul to rethink his understanding ofIsrael’s/the Messiah’s purpose/role in redemptive history.Gerald A. Wooten[Moderator’s note: Please, let’s keep discussion of this focused onthe Greek phrase EN CRISTWi and steer clear of broader matters oftheology and general Biblical interpretation. Thanks. cwc]
Irregular and deponent Verbs[]Vocabulary lists (Was: Irregular and deponent Verbs)
Rom 3:24 EN CRISTWi IHSOU Polycarp66 at aol.com Polycarp66 at aol.com
Tue May 28 08:37:28 EDT 2002
Perfective, Imperfective, and Iterative hUPO AKOUW – a warning In a message dated 5/26/2002 11:19:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rbsads at aol.com writes:Rom 3:24 DIKAIOUMENOI DWREAN THi AUTOU CARITI DIA THS APOLUTRWSEWS THS ENCRISTWi IHSOU.This use of EN CRISTWi seemed interesting to me. I am somewhat aware thatPaul uses the phrase in multiple ways, but is it typical to refer to Jesusas in Christ?The translations do not seem to render the phrase in English with anyspecial significance. But surely Paul had some intention with the phrase?I searched the archives, expecting to find something of a discussion of ENCRISTWi. The search did not find any discussion of the phrase either ingeneral or specifically as IHSOUS EN CRISTWi.__________________Just one additional note to the discussion. I can’t help but think that your problem with this might stem from seeing the verse wrongly. In your quotation you correctly note that the reading is THS EN CRISTWi IHSOU. Yet when you ask your question you state “is it typical to refer to Jesus as in Christ?” and state that you had searched the archives to find IHSOUS EN CRISTWi. If this is the problem, take a closer look at the passage — we all do that from time to time.gfsomsel[Note: this message has been heavily edited to remove MIME/HTMLformatting. List-members are reminded that protocolrequires that messages sent to the list be formatted ONLY in plain-text ASCII formatting in order to save bandwidth and to facilitatereading messages in the digests and list archives. –cwc]
Perfective, Imperfective, and IterativehUPO AKOUW – a warning