[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19 Dr. Ralph φ. Wilson rfwilson at wilsonweb.com
Thu Apr 10 14:37:00 εδτ 2003
[] Re: Managing the way of receiving posts by email [] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19 ι am trying to get the sense of the participle εισ in Ephesians 1:19, in thephrase τεσ δυναμεοσ αυτου εισ ηεμασ. Danker (βδαγ 290, 4g) cites this verseas an example of the preposition “used as the dative, especially the dativeof advantage, but also = for in general.”Just what is the sense of εισ in this passage?= for, on behalf of?= in, into, within?or is it pretty hard to be certain?Marcus Barth translates it as “his power over us believers” which seems tomiss the characteristic sense of εισ.Any ideas? Thanks.Ralph———————————————————–Ralph φ. Wilson, Director pastor at joyfulheart.comJOYFUL ηεαρτ ρενεωαλ μινιστριεσ http://www.joyfulheart.comJesusWalk Disciple Lessons http://www.jesuswalk.comPO Box 308, Rocklin, Calif. 95677, υσα (916) 652-4659———————————————————–
[] Re: Managing the way of receiving posts by email[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19
[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19 Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Apr 10 20:14:58 εδτ 2003
[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19 [] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19 At 11:37 αμ -0700 4/10/03, Dr. Ralph φ. Wilson wrote:>ι am trying to get the sense of the participle εισ in Ephesians 1:19, in the>phrase θσ δυναμεωσ αυτου εισ hHMAS. Danker (βδαγ 290, 4g) cites this verse>as an example of the preposition “used as the dative, especially the dative>of advantage, but also = for in general.”> >Just what is the sense of εισ in this passage?>= for, on behalf of?>= in, into, within?>or is it pretty hard to be certain?> >Marcus Barth translates it as “his power over us believers” which seems to>miss the characteristic sense of εισ.One really ought to see the larger context: και τι το hUPERBALLON μεγεθοσθσ δυναμεωσ αυτου εισ hHMAS τουσ πιστευοντασ κατα θν ενεργειαν τουκρατουσ θσ ισξυοσ αυτου.This is part of that awesome string of genitives dependent upon othergenitives that so characterizes this section of Ephesians. ι think ι wouldunderstand this as a circumlocution for “what exceedingly great things Heis able (to do) φορ υσ in terms of the working of his mighty power.” Thatis to say, εισ hHMAS is indeed equivalent to hHMIN; Hellenistic Greek showsthe gradual movement away from use of the dative to use of prepositionsPROS and εισ with nouns and pronouns; that accounts for the very commonequivalents of λεγει AUTWi and λεγει προσ αυτον. In Eph 1:19 ι think thedifficulty is in making εισ hHMAS depend directly upon δυναμισ: it’s notreally “power for us” or “power unto us” so much as “power to do (things)for us.”– Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19
[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19 Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Fri Apr 11 14:55:21 εδτ 2003
[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19 [] septuagint versions > At 11:37 αμ -0700 4/10/03, Dr. Ralph φ. Wilson wrote:> >ι am trying to get the sense of the participle εισ in Ephesians> 1:19, in the> >phrase θσ δυναμεωσ αυτου εισ hHMAS. Danker (βδαγ 290, 4g) cites> this verse> >as an example of the preposition “used as the dative, especially> the dative of advantage, but also = for in general.”> >> >Just what is the sense of εισ in this passage?> >= for, on behalf of?> >= in, into, within?> >or is it pretty hard to be certain?> >ι find it helpful to think of εισ basically as “towards”, that is,indicating direction, either in terms of location or in an extended sense,including aim, goal or purpose.> >Marcus Barth translates it as “his power over us believers”> which seems to miss the characteristic sense of εισ.Yes, “over us” does not seem to catch the meaning of εισ here.> One really ought to see the larger context: και τι το hUPERBALLON μεγεθοσ> θσ δυναμεωσ αυτου εισ hHMAS τουσ πιστευοντασ κατα θν ενεργειαν του> κρατουσ θσ ισξυοσ αυτου.> > This is part of that awesome string of genitives dependent upon other> genitives that so characterizes this section of Ephesians. ι think ι would> understand this as a circumlocution for “what exceedingly great things He> is able (to do) φορ υσ in terms of the working of his mighty power.” That> is to say, εισ hHMAS is indeed equivalent to hHMIN; Hellenistic> Greek shows> the gradual movement away from use of the dative to use of prepositions> προσ and εισ with nouns and pronouns; that accounts for the very common> equivalents of λεγει AUTWi and λεγει προσ αυτον. In Eph 1:19 ι think the> difficulty is in making εισ hHMAS depend directly upon δυναμισ: it’s not> really “power for us” or “power unto us” so much as “power to do (things)> for us.”> —> > Carl ω. ConradIf ι may add a bit to Carl’s comments, if εισ is directional, it can referto the experiencer or recipient of an action. The recipient and beneficiaryare semantically quite close and for some verbal ideas there may be nodistinction. Normally ι would expect the dative or hUPER for thebeneficiary.There are some other instances of εισ hHMAS which it may be helpful to lookat also to get a feel for the range of meanings of εισ hHMAS:Acts 3:4 βλευον εισ hHMASRom 5:8 συνισθσιν δε θν hEAUTOU αγαφν εισ hHMAS hO θεοσ (love directedtowards us as recipients)Rom 8:18 θν μελλουσαν δοχαν αποκαλυφθηναι εισ hHMAS (revealed to us asrecipients and partakers of it)2 Cor 1:5 καθωσ περισσευει τα παθηματα του ξριστου εισ hHMAS (as thesufferings of Christ abound towards us, i.e. as recipients and partakers: weexperience in great measure his sufferings.)Eph 1:7-8 κατα το πλουτοσ θσ ξαριτοσ αυτου hHS επερισσευσεν εισ hHMAS(according to the richness of his grace which he lavished towards us, againrecipients).Some of these are similar to 1:19 which talks about “the overwhelminggreatness of his power towards us who believe”. The believers must in someway be the recipients of that great power itself or the results/effects ofthe power. Carl seems to prefer the last option by supplying “to do things”and explicating “his power” to “what he is able (to do)”. This may becorrect, but ι am still wondering whether it could also mean that this greatpower is available to us or that we have received that great power, not justthe results of it.Iver Larsen
[] Sense of εισ in Eph 1:19[] septuagint versions