Matthew 16:19

[] The verb usage in Matt 16:19 Jay Adkins jayadkins264 at gmail.com
Fri Jan 8 06:58:08 EST 2010

 

[] Accents & Breathing Marks in Codex SinaiticusandBeatty & Bodmer Papyrii? (was Re: In defense of “Orthography”) [] The verb usage in Matt 16:19 Matt 16:19 (GNT) DWSO SOI KLEIDAS THS BASILEIAS TWN OURANWN, KAI O EAN DHSHSEPI THS GHS ESTAI DEDEMENON EN TOIS OURANOIS, KAI O EAN LUSHS EPI THS GHSESTAI LELUMENON EN TOIS OURANOIS.Matt 16:19 (NASU) “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; andwhatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever youloose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”Matt 16:19 (NIV) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whateveryou bind on earth will be {[19] Or have been} bound in heaven, and whateveryou loose on earth will be {[19] Or have been} loosed in heaven.”Matt 16:19 (NKJV) “And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever youloose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”Matt 16:19 (NRA) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, andwhatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you looseon earth will be loosed in heaven.”Matt 16:19 (WEY) I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of the Heavens; andwhatever you bind on earth shall remain bound in Heaven, and whatever youloose on earth shall remain loosed in Heaven.”Matt 16:19 (YLT) and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of theheavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having beenbound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall behaving been loosed in the heavens.’Matt 16:19 (NASB) “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; andwhatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever youshall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”Matt 16:19 (BBE) I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: andwhatever is fixed by you on earth will be fixed in heaven: and whatever youmake free on earth will be made free in heaven.Matt 16:19 (HCS) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, andwhatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven, and whatever youloose on earth is already loosed in heaven.”Matt 16:19 (WEB) I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, andwhatever you will bind on earth will be bound in heaven; and whatever youwill loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”Matt 16:19 (ESV) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, andwhatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you looseon earth shall be loosed in heaven.”The question in translating this verse is how we handle the verbs. We havetwo separate verbs, used twice each, a Subjunctive followed by a Perfect,Passive, Participle. In this list of translations, many {NIV, NKJV, NRA,ESV, and with only a slight change in the terms BBE} follow the basicpattern of; ”whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.”Those that differ are;NASU whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heavenWEY whatever you bind on earth shall remain bound in HeavenYLT whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound inthe heavensNASB whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heavenHCS whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven,WEB whatever you will bind on earth will be bound in heavenComparing translations as I do seems to be a good practice whentranslating. It is not, however, a magical means to determine what aparticular text says. We can not count up the votes as it were an electionprocess. Just because a clear majority appear to agree does not make themcorrect. Mob rule always has its problems and is an especially poor meansto find truth. What it can do is point out where a problem lies.Sorry for the digression.My question is how do we treat these verbs in this context and why? Whatrules of syntax apply?Sola Gratiajay adkins

 

[] Accents & Breathing Marks in Codex SinaiticusandBeatty & Bodmer Papyrii? (was Re: In defense of “Orthography”)[] The verb usage in Matt 16:19

[] The verb usage in Matt 16:19 Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Jan 8 08:34:17 EST 2010

 

[] The verb usage in Matt 16:19 [] Fwd: In defense of “Orthography” On Jan 8, 2010, at 6:58 AM, Jay Adkins wrote:> Matt 16:19 (GNT) DWSW SOI KLEIDAS THS BASILEIAS TWN OURANWN, KAI hO EAN DHSHS> EPI THS GHS ESTAI DEDEMENON EN TOIS OURANOIS, KAI O EAN LUSHS EPI THS GHS> ESTAI LELUMENON EN TOIS OURANOIS.> > Matt 16:19 (NASU) “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and> whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you> loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (NIV) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever> you bind on earth will be {[19] Or have been} bound in heaven, and whatever> you loose on earth will be {[19] Or have been} loosed in heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (NKJV) “And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,> and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you> loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (NRA) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and> whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose> on earth will be loosed in heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (WEY) I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of the Heavens; and> whatever you bind on earth shall remain bound in Heaven, and whatever you> loose on earth shall remain loosed in Heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (YLT) and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the> heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been> bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be> having been loosed in the heavens.’> Matt 16:19 (NASB) “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and> whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you> shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (BBE) I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and> whatever is fixed by you on earth will be fixed in heaven: and whatever you> make free on earth will be made free in heaven.> Matt 16:19 (HCS) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and> whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven, and whatever you> loose on earth is already loosed in heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (WEB) I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and> whatever you will bind on earth will be bound in heaven; and whatever you> will loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”> Matt 16:19 (ESV) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and> whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose> on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”> > The question in translating this verse is how we handle the verbs. We have> two separate verbs, used twice each, a Subjunctive followed by a Perfect,> Passive, Participle. In this list of translations, many {NIV, NKJV, NRA,> ESV, and with only a slight change in the terms BBE} follow the basic> pattern of;> > ”whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.”> > Those that differ are;> NASU whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven> WEY whatever you bind on earth shall remain bound in Heaven> YLT whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in> the heavens> NASB whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven> HCS whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven,> WEB whatever you will bind on earth will be bound in heaven> > Comparing translations as I do seems to be a good practice when> translating. It is not, however, a magical means to determine what a> particular text says. We can not count up the votes as it were an election> process. Just because a clear majority appear to agree does not make them> correct. Mob rule always has its problems and is an especially poor means> to find truth. What it can do is point out where a problem lies.> > Sorry for the digression.All very true. Unless you decide the issues for yourself by yourself, youhave to rely upon the views of another or others — but who do you trustto have a sound view? Probably somebody who shares your assumptionsor presuppositions. How do you discern that? That’s up to you, of course.> My question is how do we treat these verbs in this context and why? What> rules of syntax apply?There are at least two ways to understand these future perfect passives,in my opinion:(1) On the one hand, you can interpret them to mean that the choices/decisionsmade by the ecclesiasatical authorities will be consistent with the way thingsare already fixed in the heavenly lawbooks, so to speak. That is to say, it isimpossible for ecclesiastical authorities on earth to reach decisions that haven’talready been fixed in Heaven. Read this way, such decisions would seem tobe actions of puppets on earth who only go through a show of exercisingauthority.(2) On the other hand, you can interpret them to mean that, when they makethese choices/decisons, they can be confident that their choices/decisions willindeed be ratified in Heaven. This would be assurance that the holders ofthe keys of the kingdom have genuine authority. I think this is more likelythe intent of the Jesus-saying as here set forth in Matthew.It would probably be worth while to consider the formulation in John 20:22-23 καὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν ἐνεφύσησεν καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς· λάβετε πνεῦμα ἅγιον· 23 ἄν τινων ἀφῆτε τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἀφέωνται αὐτοῖς, ἄν τινων κρατῆτε κεκράτηνται. [ KAI TOUTO EIPWN ENEFUSHSEN KAI LEGEI AUTOIS· LABETE PNEUMA hAGION· 23 AN TINWN AFHTE TAS hAMARTIAS AFEWNTAI AUTOIS, AN TINWN KRATHTE KEKRATHNTAI]Here the result-clauses are in the perfect passive indicative: “they stand forgiven;they stand confirmed.”There’s been discussion of these problems in this forum before. Cf.http://tinyurl.com/ydfa2p4But I’ve always wondered how many go away from reviews of this questionfeeling fully satisfied that the questions have been fully resolved.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

 

[] The verb usage in Matt 16:19[] Fwd: In defense of “Orthography”

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46 thoughts on “Matthew 16:19

  1. Troy Day says:

    Derrick Stokes Matthew 16:19 is one of the verse often quoted
    What did JESUS say His disciples could bind here?

    The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time. The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology meaning to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed Who did Jesus mean in this verse?

    1. Actions or teachings/doctrine incorporated in the church body. Acts is full of it. We even see Paul doing it in 1 Corinthians. Even of sins (John 20:23). We can’t say “whatsoever” means whatsoever we choose it means. I choose to let scripture interpret scripture and if God says Jesus is the one that binds Satan, then I’m going to let Jesus be Jesus.

    2. Troy Day says:

      I read your points in your article but am more interested in the actual text of the Bible – in the original Greek it says whatsoever. How does whatsoever, in your opinion, exclude demons or satan?

  2. Troy Day says:

    Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy:

    Does all the power of the enemy not include satan the chief enemy? Is he protected from us? Has God given him immunity from the church? Joseph D. Absher Brody Pope Joseph Castillo Robbie Asbury Why do you think people want to limit the power of God?

  3. Melvin Shomo says:

    Troy Day the believer has power over the weather if he or she truly believes.
    The gift of faith is like a flickering candle in our Churches today, and as soon as the slightest wind blows the flame of faith is put out.

    I had tested fate with the blood poisoning that I had a few years back.
    And the main reason for me doing so was because I had promised the Lord that I would not seek medical help if something would happen to me again.
    After what was believed to be a heart attack is when I made a vow unto the Lord.

    The vow was between the Lord and I.
    My son enlaw had said to me, “Melvin I don’t believe that the Lord will hold it against you for going to the hospital to have the blood poisoning looked after.
    I said in return, “It is either life or death with me, but you will see that the Lord will see me through this.
    The Son enlaw couldn’t sleep that night and he had awakened the daughter up to come and talk me into going too the hospital.
    She said, “go back to sleep, he isn’t going to listen to you.
    You see his father had blood poisoning three different times in his life, so he was familiar with what the outcome could be.

    Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
    5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

    I for one wanted to honor my vow unto the Lord and in my mind I had seen only deliverance with Satan defeated.

    Pentecostal is only a name much like Methodist, Baptist.
    The binding and loosing is a figment of imagination to many believers.
    It is only a statement with no action.

    I made a new friend on Facebook that has such experiences in his own life.
    I even went to the church where he pastor’s to meet him personally.
    This gentleman has some crazy experiences where he had trusted in the Lord for the impossible.

  4. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    Derrick Stokes Matthew 16:19 is one of the verse often quoted
    What did JESUS say His disciples could bind here?

    The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time. The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology meaning to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed Who did Jesus mean in this verse?

    1. Actions or teachings/doctrine incorporated in the church body. Acts is full of it. We even see Paul doing it in 1 Corinthians. Even of sins (John 20:23). We can’t say “whatsoever” means whatsoever we choose it means. I choose to let scripture interpret scripture and if God says Jesus is the one that binds Satan, then I’m going to let Jesus be Jesus.

    2. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      I read your points in your article but am more interested in the actual text of the Bible – in the original Greek it says whatsoever. How does whatsoever, in your opinion, exclude demons or satan?

  5. Melvin Shomo says:

    If Ya don’t you are in a heep of trouble

    Satan can take your health or any other weaknesses one might have in their lives if they don’t have power over the devil.

    Christ surely had the power, and he had handed the same authority over to the believer to have power over the devil

  6. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy:

    Does all the power of the enemy not include satan the chief enemy? Is he protected from us? Has God given him immunity from the church? Joseph D. Absher Brody Pope Joseph Castillo Robbie Asbury Why do you think people want to limit the power of God?

  7. Troy Day says:

    Ray E Horton We’ve discussed it in detail here and other places, but the question asked earlier was IF satan is the strong man bound in the parable of Jesus What do you think about that?

    Does satan himself personally enter every demonized person?

    What about Judas, Ananias and Sapphira? Joseph D. Absher Anthony McCabe BTW The phrase bind the strong man (or strongman) is a reference to a passage in the book of Mark, where Jesus is responding to some Jewish scribes who were accusing Him of being possessed by Beelzebul. Jim Price

  8. Melvin Shomo Melvin Shomo says:

    Troy Day the believer has power over the weather if he or she truly believes.
    The gift of faith is like a flickering candle in our Churches today, and as soon as the slightest wind blows the flame of faith is put out.

    I had tested fate with the blood poisoning that I had a few years back.
    And the main reason for me doing so was because I had promised the Lord that I would not seek medical help if something would happen to me again.
    After what was believed to be a heart attack is when I made a vow unto the Lord.

    The vow was between the Lord and I.
    My son enlaw had said to me, “Melvin I don’t believe that the Lord will hold it against you for going to the hospital to have the blood poisoning looked after.
    I said in return, “It is either life or death with me, but you will see that the Lord will see me through this.
    The Son enlaw couldn’t sleep that night and he had awakened the daughter up to come and talk me into going too the hospital.
    She said, “go back to sleep, he isn’t going to listen to you.
    You see his father had blood poisoning three different times in his life, so he was familiar with what the outcome could be.

    Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
    5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

    I for one wanted to honor my vow unto the Lord and in my mind I had seen only deliverance with Satan defeated.

    Pentecostal is only a name much like Methodist, Baptist.
    The binding and loosing is a figment of imagination to many believers.
    It is only a statement with no action.

    I made a new friend on Facebook that has such experiences in his own life.
    I even went to the church where he pastor’s to meet him personally.
    This gentleman has some crazy experiences where he had trusted in the Lord for the impossible.

  9. Melvin Shomo Melvin Shomo says:

    If Ya don’t you are in a heep of trouble

    Satan can take your health or any other weaknesses one might have in their lives if they don’t have power over the devil.

    Christ surely had the power, and he had handed the same authority over to the believer to have power over the devil

  10. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    Ray E Horton We’ve discussed it in detail here and other places, but the question asked earlier was IF satan is the strong man bound in the parable of Jesus What do you think about that?

    Does satan himself personally enter every demonized person?

    What about Judas, Ananias and Sapphira? Joseph D. Absher Anthony McCabe BTW The phrase bind the strong man (or strongman) is a reference to a passage in the book of Mark, where Jesus is responding to some Jewish scribes who were accusing Him of being possessed by Beelzebul. Jim Price

  11. It is a very radical idea that the Lord Jesus Christ commissions Peter Immediately with authority to stand against, limit, and resist, bind, and hinder evil and encourage, release, loose and facilitate good. Submitted to God and serving him. Loving the things he loves and hating the the things he hates.
    This is just the plain sense of the verse as far as I’m concerned. Knowing the Lord Jesus Christ by revelation and being bold enough and morally fit enough to stand on the promises of God.
    Knowing right from wrong and choosing to do right and stand against evil. In Jesus name, devil I resist you, I stand against you. I’m telling you, oh no you don’t you can’t have my family. I bind you in Jesus name!
    And I believe God according to his promise to pour out a spirit of grace and supplication, the liberty of the spirit to seek God turn from sin and offer a sacrifice of praise and i thank you for a spirit of faith to believe God for great and mighty things.
    All things in obedience to Thee oh God and for the glory in Jesus mighty name!

  12. Ray E Horton says:

    “And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it” (Matt 16:18). The Catholics use this scripture to say that the church was built on Peter, but actually, it is built on Peter’s confession, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Vs. 16). Note that two different words are used that mean rock. Peter’s name, Petros, means a little piece of rock, whereas the rock being built on is “petra,” meaning a projecting or mass of rock or large stone. Jesus Himself is the “chief corner stone.”

  13. It is a very radical idea that the Lord Jesus Christ commissions Peter Immediately with authority to stand against, limit, and resist, bind, and hinder evil and encourage, release, loose and facilitate good. Submitted to God and serving him. Loving the things he loves and hating the the things he hates.
    This is just the plain sense of the verse as far as I’m concerned. Knowing the Lord Jesus Christ by revelation and being bold enough and morally fit enough to stand on the promises of God.
    Knowing right from wrong and choosing to do right and stand against evil. In Jesus name, devil I resist you, I stand against you. I’m telling you, oh no you don’t you can’t have my family. I bind you in Jesus name!
    And I believe God according to his promise to pour out a spirit of grace and supplication, the liberty of the spirit to seek God turn from sin and offer a sacrifice of praise and i thank you for a spirit of faith to believe God for great and mighty things.
    All things in obedience to Thee oh God and for the glory in Jesus mighty name!

  14. Ray E Horton Ray E Horton says:

    “And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it” (Matt 16:18). The Catholics use this scripture to say that the church was built on Peter, but actually, it is built on Peter’s confession, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Vs. 16). Note that two different words are used that mean rock. Peter’s name, Petros, means a little piece of rock, whereas the rock being built on is “petra,” meaning a projecting or mass of rock or large stone. Jesus Himself is the “chief corner stone.”

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