1 Thess 4:4 TO hEAUTOU SKEUOS KTASQAI … Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu Fri Jul 12 12:37:57 EDT 2002 Ephesians 4:12 Perseus encountering problems The problem here is an old one and I can still remember vividly the timewhen I first puzzled over it, observing to myself, “the translations ofthis phrase all seem…
1thes 4:3 Rion K. Reece yoshua at tky2.3web.ne.jp Tue Dec 21 20:15:28 EST 1999 1 John 2:1 1 John 2:1 In 1Thessalonians 4:3, [TOUTA GAR ESTIN QELHMA TOU QEOU, hO hAGIASMOShMWN, APEXESQAI hUMAS APO THS PORNEIAS] is hO hAGIASMOS hMWN furtherexplaining QEOU, i.e. “God, the (one who is)your sanctification…”?My English translations read:KJV 1 Thessalonians…
 Translating EIS at 1 Thess. 4:15 Timothy Lawson tslawson1 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 11:58:54 EST 2010  PIGNW – APOPIGNW  Translating EIS at 1 Thess. 4:15 To All: At 1 Thessalonians 4:15 Paul connects the timing of the so called “rapture” to the PAROUSIA. What inferences can be drawn, as regards timing,…
1Thess 3:13 Steve Amato samato at cfa.harvard.edu Fri Jul 2 13:26:46 EDT 1999 [Fwd: Tense of TETAGMENOI in Acts 13:48] DE in I John 1:3 (was Re: Periphrastic construction in I John 1:4) I wonder if someone might be able to tell me why the NIV translates 1Thess 3:12,13 as”May the Lord make your…
1 Thess 5:10 Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org Wed Jan 30 02:44:43 EST 2002 DOMATA in Mal 1:3 1 Thess 5:10 > on 1/29/02 12:39 PM, Iver Larsen wrote:> > > 1 Thess 5:10 says> > hINA EITE GRHGORWMEN EITE KAQEUDWMEN hAMA SUN AUTWi ZHSWMEN.> >> > My question is about the sense of…
1Th. 4:15 Τοῦτο γὰρ ὑμῖν λέγομεν ἐν λόγῳ κυρίου, ὅτι ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν παρουσίαν τοῦ κυρίου οὐ μὴ φθάσωμεν τοὺς κοιμηθέντας· 16 ὅτι αὐτὸς ὁ κύριος ἐν κελεύσματι, ἐν φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου καὶ ἐν σάλπιγγι θεοῦ, καταβήσεται ἀπ᾿ οὐρανοῦ καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἐν Χριστῷ ἀναστήσονται πρῶτον, 17 ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.
Spent some time looking over the exegetical history from John Calvin to J. Weima.
He employs the term κελεύσματος, (shout,) and afterwards adds, the voice of the archangel, by way of exposition, intimating what is to be the nature of that arousing shout—that the archangel will discharge the office of a herald to summon the living and the dead to the tribunal of Christ.
Paul is invoking an eschatological – apocalyptic scenario where 98% of the scenario is left to be filled in by the reader. Not sure what can be assumed about the Thessalonian’s familiarity with Second Temple Apocalyptic literature but that isn’t the problem. Paul invokes the scenario as if they were familiar with it. In the apocalyptic literature divine commands are often delivered by a subordinate agent, for example the opening of the seals in the Apocalypse where The Lamb opens the seals but a command is given by one of the living beings:
Rev. 6:1 Καὶ εἶδον ὅτε ἤνοιξεν τὸ ἀρνίον μίαν ἐκ τῶν ἑπτὰ σφραγίδων, καὶ ἤκουσα ἑνὸς ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ζῴων λέγοντος ὡς φωνὴ βροντῆς· ἔρχου.
J. Weima disagrees, he thinks that αὐτὸς ὁ κύριος nails down ὁ κύριος as the agent of κελεύσματι. I don’t follow that. ἐν κελεύσματι is an attendant circumstance. The pronoun αὐτὸς ὁ κύριος draws attention to identity of the agent in the main verb καταβήσεται ἀπ᾿ οὐρανοῦ.
Ran across a somewhat tangential observation about the constituent order in this passage. αὐτὸς ὁ κύριος is a point of departure followed by a long marked focal constituent ἐν κελεύσματι, ἐν φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου καὶ ἐν σάλπιγγι θεοῦ in the pre-verbal slot. This doesn’t particularly address the question at hand but I thought someone might like to read this paper.
 a Google search: φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου who is speaking, delivered among others J. Weima 2014,
1-2 Thessalonians (Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament)
By Jeffrey A. D. Weima, 2014
 See page 25, Greek Word Order in 1 Thessalonians 4:13–5:11 Stephen Wunrow April 16, 2013
https://www.academia.edu/25302324/Greek … _4_13_5_11
Statistics: Posted by Stirling Bartholomew — January 20th, 2017, 4:06 pm
 TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms? Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com Sat Jun 19 05:43:54 EDT 2010  ARNOUME  TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? 1 Thessalonians 5:23: hOLOKLHRON hUMWN TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS … THRHQEIH. Is there any grammatical…