1 Corinthians 13:19

[] TELION perfection 1 Cor. 13:19 Steve Petty selecsteve at yahoo.com Sun Feb 17 12:52:54 EST 2008   [] Is GRAFH in the singular used in Josephus or Philofor all the scriptures? [] BMCR review of Rijksbaron’s Verbal Syntax book -linguistic terminology I read a post soemwhere before joining concerning work done by someone about…

1 Corinthians 14:27

1 Cor 14 27  Number Agreement

1 Cor 14:27–number agreement Trevor M Peterson spedrson at juno.com Tue Jun 16 11:37:24 EDT 1998   Mark 2:23b Mark 2:23b Well, this is my first post since the changeover; hopefully it will comeout all right.I’ve come out of lurking once again with more of a question than ananswer. In dialogue about 1 Corinthians 14,…

1 Corinthians 14:18

More Thanks Or More Tongues   1Cor14 18

[] First Corinthians 14:18 Mitch Larramore mitchlarramore at yahoo.com Tue Sep 23 13:56:05 EDT 2003   [] Re: Preposition example needed [] First Corinthians 14:18 EUCARISTWi TWi QEWi, PANTWN hUMWN MALLON GLWSSAIS LALWWhat are the possible meanings of MALLON here? Can itmean that he speaks more frequently than you all?Also, can it mean he speaks…

2 Corinthians 12:7

2 Cor 12 7 Beatings Or Diseases

[] AGGELOS in 2 Cor 12:7 bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca Sun May 23 16:54:43 EDT 2004 [] Matthew’s SU LEGW [] AGGELOS in 2 Cor 12:7 2 Cor.12:7b-8(7B)EDOQH MOI SKOLOY THi SARKI, AGGELOS SATANA, hINA ME KOLAFIZHi, hINA MH hUPERAIRWMAI.(8)hUPER TOUTOU TRIS TON KURION PAREKALESA, hINA APOSTHi AP EMOU.In every English translation that…

1 Corinthians 12 7

1 Corinthians 12 7 11 And Spiritual Gifts Manifestations

[] 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 and spiritual gifts/manifestations Kuzus at aol.com Kuzus at aol.com Wed Jul 23 20:29:00 EDT 2003 [] Septuagint translated by Sir Lancelot C.L. Brenton [] Re: 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 and spiritual gifts/manifestations [] Septuagint translated by Sir Lancelot C.L. Brenton[] Re: 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 and spiritual gifts/manifestations [] Re: 1 Corinthians 12:7-11…

1 Corinthians 12:30

1 Corinthians 12 30 And Logos User’s Guide

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Jeffrey T. Requadt jeff at requadt.com Fri Aug 27 12:19:44 EDT 2004 [] NET – Novum Testamentum Graece Diglot (Greek / English) [] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide I’m new to this list, but I can’t find this question in the archives. Doesanyone know why…

1 Peter 1:15

New Testament • Re: 1 Peter 1:15 κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον
Stephen Carlson wrote:

June 17th, 2017, 11:22 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:

June 15th, 2017, 3:17 pm

Several translations seem to translate κατά “just as”, giving a nice parallelism:
***
But can κατά really bend that way? Can you think of similar constructions where it is used like this? Or is there another justification for this kind of translation?

Translations are best thought of more of a guide to how someone interpreted the text rather than a commentary on the grammatical structures per se of the source text.

Of course, but translations seem to follow two very different ways of understanding this particular text. And these two different interpretations seem to be found in commentaries as well.

One interpretation takes ἅγιον to be a substantive, the other takes it to be a predicate complement.

Stephen Carlson wrote:

June 17th, 2017, 11:22 pm

A more literal ‘translation’ would be something like “in accordance with the holy one who called you” and even that does certain transformations like participle to relative clause, adding a “one” to substantive the adjective, etc. These transformations only become problematic with they seem to depart from fidelity to the sense of the source.

That’s a more literal translation of this interpretation (the one shown in my last post):

κατὰ

τὸν
+

v.part καλέσαντα
o ὑμᾶς

ἅγιον

And that agrees with Meyer, as quoted above. NET and NASB both understand the Greek text this way. Here is NASB:

NASB wrote:but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

I think I’ve persuaded myself that I like this understanding best. But ESV, HCSB, NIV, NLT, KJV, etc. are based on a different understanding of the Greek text. Here is ESV:

ESV wrote:but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,

That seems to follow this understanding of the text:

+ ἀλλὰ

κατὰ

s τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς
pc ἅγιον

s καὶ αὐτοὶ
pc ἅγιοι
+ ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ
v γενήθητε

Expositor’s Greek argues for this interpretation:

Expositor’s Greek wrote:—ἅγιον is better taken as predicate than as substantive, since ὁ καλέσας (καλῶν) is well-established as a title of God in His relation to Gentile Christians (cf. 1 Peter 2:9, etc.)

Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — June 18th, 2017, 12:07 pm


1 Corinthians 4:8

New Testament • Re: Can statements in 1 Corinthians 4:8 be rhetorical questi
David Lee wrote:
The author (both human and divine) would write in a way that the epistle could be understood by most readers, especially if it was meant to be passed around and read in different churches. I think languages have enough nuance that by using certain vocabulary, word order, and word patterns, a fluent immersed reader would be clear on what the epistle is saying, at least semantically.

The first statement of yours is an assumption, which may not be so easy to justify as you might have assumed. Your second statement is reasonable, but what if a rhetorical question and a rhetorical statement have almost exactly the same semantic meaning? Then there would be no need for the reader to attempt to distinguish between the two. Even in English not everything is a statement or a question… We see people using “…?”, “?!”, “!?!?” and so on, which seems to suggest that some exclamations are ‘in-between’…

Statistics: Posted by David Lim — May 16th, 2014, 5:18 am


Revelation 15:2

New Testament • Re: νικάω +  ἐκ  in Rev. 15,2

As an addition, as I could not edit the former text: M. Psellus, In E. Nic. 549.6: “δυνατὸν δὲ αὐτοὺς νικῆσαι οὐκ ἐκ προφανοῦς πο- λέμου”. “it is possible now that they win not out of a forseen battle”. Same author (Oratoria min. 2.37: ” ἀλλ’ ἐπὶ τῷ μάχεσθαι νικᾶν τε καὶ εἰρήνην ἐκ πολέμου…

2 Peter 3:10

New Testament • Re: 2 Peter 3:10  (NA28) *οὐχ* εὑρεθήσεται
Jonathan Robie wrote:

May 23rd, 2017, 3:06 pm

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:

May 23rd, 2017, 3:00 pm

Got a good laugh out of that. The suggestion assumes that I know enough coptic to correct the auto parsing mistakes.

Are you copting out?

Yeah, my objective with Sahidic is even less ambitious than a similar project with Syriac. I thought it would be useful to look at the architecture of the language and see to what extent the versions could be trusted in textual criticism. I thought it would be about as difficult as Syriac coming from Hebrew. I was wrong.

Statistics: Posted by Stirling Bartholomew — May 23rd, 2017, 3:11 pm


2 Corinthians 3:17

New Testament • Re: Jehovah’s Witnesses and 2 Corinthians 3:17.

I have decided to lock this thread so that it doesn’t serve as bait.

Specific questions about the use of Greek words and phrases, the wording of Greek manuscripts, and other topics within the purview of B-Greek are welcome in separate threads. These threads should not debate individual groups or translations.

Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — January 7th, 2014, 4:49 pm


2 John 11

New Testament • Re: Split Constituent in John 2:11
Stephen Hughes wrote:

April 20th, 2017, 1:09 am

How difficult is it to make concordance list this into one with verse-either-side or paragraph contexts? Looking them up one by one and finding the element mentioned is tedious.

Here’s one way you could do that: use a text editor to make lists of verses like this:

CODE:

Luke 19:23; John 17:6; John 17:8

Now use a site like Biblegateway that allows you to specify more than one verse at the same time. Here is the format for the URL you need:

CODE:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 19:23; John 17:6; John 17:8&version=SBLGNT

Or you can enter the list of verses into their text box and select SBLGNT, if you prefer. Please start a new thread if you want to discuss the results of that, or put it into your moieties thread.

Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — April 20th, 2017, 6:16 am