Isaiah 45:19 (also Isaiah 7:14 in Mt 1:23) Benjamin Raymond braymond at ipa.net Sat Sep 5 21:34:28 EDT 1998 Compound subjects with hH? Present tence copulative verbs At 10:54 PM 9/4/98 +0000, you wrote:>On Fri 4 Sep 98 (15:31:55), cms at dragon.com wrote:>> Could the repetition be a scribal error or is it emphasis? Not…
[] 1 John 4:19 Andy Kaylor andy_kaylor at yahoo.com Sat May 19 04:53:50 EDT 2007 [] Gender [] 1 John 4:19 I’m a newbie working through 1 John, and tonight I was looking at 1 John 4:19hHMEIS AGAPWMEN hOTI AUTOS PRWTOS HGAPHSEN hHMASMy first thought was that AGAPWMEN was subjunctive, so I Englished it as…
[] Women or Wives in Acts 21:5 Joseph Weaks j.weaks at tcu.edu Wed Sep 22 14:39:04 EDT 2004 [] Women or Wives in Acts 21:5 [] translation of phrase On Sep 22, 2004, at 1:13 PM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:> At 12:53 PM -0400 9/22/04, Mark Wutka wrote:>> I was wondering about this portion…
[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Jeffrey T. Requadt jeff at requadt.com Fri Aug 27 12:19:44 EDT 2004 [] NET – Novum Testamentum Graece Diglot (Greek / English) [] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide I’m new to this list, but I can’t find this question in the archives. Doesanyone know why…
Acts 1:10 John M. Moe John.M.Moe-1 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 11 06:30:28 EDT 1999 Greek Vocabulary Builder Mark 3.1 At Acts. 1:10 POREUOMENOU AUTO is consistently taken as a genitiveabsolute with temporal connotation “as He went up” (NKJV). It seems abit awkward since the verse already has a temporal expression hWSATENIZONTES. My question: could…
[] Acts 2:17 dream: deponens or passive? Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu Tue Apr 27 17:11:28 EDT 2004 [] Very interesting GNT, _A Readers Greek New Testament_ [] Acts 2:17 dream: deponens or passive? Forwarded for: “Hessel + Coby Visser” <hessel.visser at sil.org>To: “Carl W. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Acts 2:17 dream: deponens…
1 John 1:1-Genitive of Connection? Ilvgrammta at aol.com Ilvgrammta at aol.com Mon Dec 20 14:15:08 EST 1999 Mk 8:35-37, YUCH 1 John 1:1-Genitive of Connection? Dear ers,1 John 1:5 reads:hO HN AP’ ARXHS hO AKHKOAMEN hO hEWRAKAMEN TOIS OFQALMOIS hHMWN hO EQEASAMEQA KAI hAI XEIRES hHMWN EYHLAFHSAN PERI TOU LOGOU THS ZWHS.In his _First…
[] Fwd: Ephesians 2:1-3 John Butzu jbutzu at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 10:48:13 EDT 2009 [] Zhubert’s daily greek read [] Fwd: Ephesians 2:1-3 ———- Forwarded message ———-From: John Butzu <jbutzu at gmail.com>Date: Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:01 AMSubject: Ephesians 2:1-3To: at lists.ibiblio.orgHello. Could someone please explain to me why in Ephesians 2:1…
Concerning Romans 1: 20 and NOUMENA KATHORATAI jerker karlsson jerker_k at hotmail.com Tue Nov 27 14:30:41 EST 2001 SU as part of a vocative? Use of MH Hi!I am near the completion of an essay on Paul and natural theology, but have recently stumbled over an interpretation of the NOOUMENA KATHORATAI in Romans 1:…
1 Corinthians 11 David Fox amyraut at hotmail.com Wed Jul 17 13:23:13 EDT 2002 Hebrews 9:6, 12:6 and the usage of DE Hebrews 9:6, 12:6 and the usage of DE Dear all,I have been looking at 1 Corinthians 11.In verses 14-15, the KJV reads, “Doth not even nature itself teach you,that, if a man…
Romans 1:17 Clwinbery at aol.com Clwinbery at aol.com Mon Aug 5 18:25:57 EDT 2002 IOKOBOS to JAMES Romans 1:17 This verse has been oft discussed on . Go to Feb. and following in 1996 for a good string.What follows is a good posting from Edward Hobbs.[Since the meaning of Romans 1:17 has come up…
Michael Abernathy wrote:
Years ago I read an article (I can’t remember which one) that argued that when the verb for permit is followed by two infinitives the second infinitive often states the purpose of the first infinitive. As I remember the author gave the example of Matthew 8:21 to substantiate his claim.
κύριε, ἐπίτρεψον μοι πρω̂τον ἀπελθει̂ν καὶ θάψαι τὸν πατέρα μου.
Lord, permit me first to go and to bury my father.
We do this in English with a few verbs like ‘go’ and ‘try’.
‘Go and buy some milk’ = ‘go to buy some milk’
‘Try and fix your bicycle’ = ‘try to fix your bicycle’
It seems to me that this happens because the verb demands a complement of this sort. ‘Try’ is inherently purposeful, and purpose is implicit with going, because it is not the going that is the purpose, but whatever one does when one reaches the destination.
My English dictionary, under entry ‘and’, has an addendum which reads:
A small number of verbs, notably ‘try’, ‘come’ and ‘go’ can be followed by ‘and’ with another verb, as in sentences like ‘we’re going to try and explain it to them..’ The structures in these verbs correspond to the use of the infinitive ‘to’, as in ‘we’re going to try to explain it to them..’ .. Since these structures are grammatically odd – for example, the use is normally only idiomatic with the infinitive of the verb and not with other forms (i.e. it is not possible to say ‘I tried and explained it to them’) – they are regarded as wrong by some traditionalists. However, these uses are extremely common in just about every context and can certainly be regarded as standard English.
In English, this isn’t idiomatic with most verbs. And ‘I will teach [you] and fix your bicycle’ would not mean ‘I will teach [you] to fix your bicycle’.
I suspect that the same sort of thing is happening with ἐπίτρεψον μοι πρω̂τον ἀπελθει̂ν καὶ θάψαι τὸν πατέρα μου. καὶ is connective; I think one understands that the terms are sequential – to go and then to bury – and one infers purpose. So I don’t find this example convincing as regards showing anything about ἐπιτρέπω followed by two infinitives. I suspect this is something that happens naturally with ἔρχομαι.
Andrew
Statistics: Posted by Andrew Chapman — March 17th, 2014, 1:54 pm
καθὼς is correlative to the deictic adverb οὕτως which somewhat clumsily follows it, instead of preceding it. A more natural rendering would be as follows:
ὁ λέγων ἐν αὐτῷ μένειν ὀφείλει οὕτως, καθὼς ἐκεῖνος περιεπάτησεν, καὶ αὐτὸς [οὕτως] περιπατεῖν.
He who says that he abides in him should thus, as he walked, also himself walk.
Statistics: Posted by Robert Crowe — November 15th, 2016, 10:49 pm
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος
This is always translated as “In the beginning”, but from the little I
understand of Greek grammar, one shouldn’t append the definite article in
English if the article is absent in Greek.
Is this “hyer-literal” translation accurate:
“In origin was the Word”
http://catholic-resources.org/John/Outl … ologue.htm
ὅτι ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς ὁ διάβολος ἁμαρτάνει
“For the devil sins from the beginning.”
The devil has an article, in both Greek and English, but again, beginning
has none.
Apologies for a simplistic question, I’m only two words into the text and
I’m confused.
Can someone clear this up for me?
Danny Diskin
Statistics: Posted by Danny Diskin — April 14th, 2014, 10:40 pm
cwconrad wrote:Stephen Carlson wrote:Randall Tan wrote:One could assume an elided participle–but γεγονυῖα is actually what would need to be elided, not ὤν (a widow is not currently the wife of one husband)–but the contextually-easily-supplied ὤν is more likely to be elided than the more affected form γεγονυῖα in the first place. This consideration contributed further to our conclusion that ὤν was elided in relation to ἔλαττον ἐτῶν ἑξήκοντα & that γεγονυῖα belongs with ἑνὸς ἀνδρὸς γυνή.I suppose γενομένη could be supplied to get the appropriate sense.
It seems to me that γεγονυῖα is an integral part of the idiomatic expression meaning “x years old”, while construing γεγονυῖα with ἑνὸς ἀνδρὸς γυνή — a Greek equivalent of the idiomatic Latin laudatory epithet univira, “committed life-long to one husband” — strikes me as absurd. I think that the μὴ does qualify just the phrase ἔλαττον ἐτῶν ἑξήκοντα γεγονυῖα and that the genitive phrase is clearly a genitive of comparison construed with ἔλαττον. I see no problem with assuming an elliptical ὢν with ἑνὸς ἀνδρὸς γυνή.
People are duscussing the relatives strengths of the (merel hypothetical /conjectured) participles, I would like to change that emphasis. I think that the strength (or recognisability ) of the element with which the particle is used will have bearing on the tendencies for elision.
If ἑνὸς ἀνδρὸς γυνή was a readily recognisable laudatory epithet (as claimed) (virtually = adjectival unit) for an older woman (alive or no longer alive) then it would be less likely to need the aid of the (a) participle to bring attention to bear on it’s meaning, than the variable phrase ἔλαττον ἐτῶν ἑξήκοντα would need.
I think the force of the statement ἑνὸς ἀνδρὸς γυνή requires a participle that can give the force of “she has always been”. The ούσα suggested above may or may not convey that, and I feel that the suggestion of
γενομένη might do so, but the best would be a doubling of the γεγονυῖα.
If it was doubled, then it would be lost from the strongest (independent – self-standing) element and retained by the weakest (non-independent, the one that needs help to stand, least-able-stand-by-itself) element.
Statistics: Posted by Stephen Hughes — April 29th, 2014, 4:41 pm
1 Cor 3:15 (The force of the future indicative) Matt Eby ebymatt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 00:22:13 EST 2002 Rev. 3:3a 1 Cor 3:15 (The force of the future indicative) Greetings again Moon…> The future statement AUTOS DE SWQHSETAI is qualified> by hOUTWS DE hWS DIA PUROS. > > If we understand DIA…
[] Titus 1:12-13 Oun Kwon kwonbbl at gmail.com Tue Dec 8 22:33:55 EST 2009 [] Present imperative in Matt. 7:1 [] Titus 1:12-13 First, I have copied Tit 1:12-13 with some phrase and line breaks added:Titus(1:12) EIPEN TIS EX AUTWN, IDIOS AUTWN PROFHTHS, <KRHTES AEI YEUSTAI,KAKA QHRIA, GASTERES ARGAI.>(1:13a) hH MARTURIA hAUTH ESTIN ALHQHS.(1:13b)…
[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms? Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com Sat Jun 19 05:43:54 EDT 2010 [] ARNOUME [] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? 1 Thessalonians 5:23: hOLOKLHRON hUMWN TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS … THRHQEIH. Is there any grammatical…
[] 1 Timothy 2:4-5 George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com Sat Mar 19 11:07:55 EDT 2011 [] 1 Timothy 2:4-5 [] 1 Timothy 2:4-5 I would say that whoever wishes to understand ὅς hOS as having a causal meaning needs to provide some proof that such can indeed be the case — which I don’t…
[] ESTIN at Matthew 1:20 Awohili at aol.com Awohili at aol.com Sun May 28 08:57:32 EDT 2006 [] The Interlinear St. John has moved. [] ESTIN at Matthew 1:20 There is a construction for “Holy Spirit” at the latter part of Matthew 1:20 that apparently is found nowhere else in the NT: TO GAR EN…
